Comments on: The Real Cost of a Free (Open Source) LMS! http://www.upsidelearning.com/blog/index.php/2010/04/29/the-real-cost-of-a-free-open-source-lms/ Mon, 06 Feb 2012 13:15:08 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: Anoopms http://www.upsidelearning.com/blog/index.php/2010/04/29/the-real-cost-of-a-free-open-source-lms/comment-page-1/#comment-72807 Anoopms Tue, 20 Sep 2011 13:24:45 +0000 http://www.upsidelearning.com/blog/?p=4636#comment-72807 Hi Amit, I work in a company where we work in developing LMS etc in PHP.the real advantage of PHP compared to .NET and java is that it is easier to train entry level programmers in PHP and bug fixing and customization is easy  in PHP     Hi Amit,
I work in a company where we work in developing LMS etc in PHP.the real advantage of PHP compared to .NET and java is that it is easier to train entry level programmers in PHP and bug fixing and customization is easy  in PHP
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]]> By: Amit Gautam http://www.upsidelearning.com/blog/index.php/2010/04/29/the-real-cost-of-a-free-open-source-lms/comment-page-1/#comment-69410 Amit Gautam Thu, 04 Aug 2011 06:10:15 +0000 http://www.upsidelearning.com/blog/?p=4636#comment-69410 Hi Vijay, I agree with the comments you have posted reg open source. Yes, as you put it and I have tried to address - the key areas to factor in are skills (PHP and Moodle knowledge), ability to manage a programming team, clear understanding of the hosting and infrastructure costs, and a helpdesk.  As long as customers understand that all these are costs, I am sure that they can take a informed decision. Regarding JSP (or rather we use Advanced Java), when we started developing UpsideLMS more than 6 years ago Java was a preferred enterprise development platform for designing and developing enterprise scale applications. PHP was getting popular and .NET was also getting its feet in the ground. We, however decided to go with Java as we had more confidence in the platform and also more skills and knowledge at that point of time. But yes, PHP has really come up well and is a strong contender today to both Java and .NET for developing big applications. Hi Vijay,

I agree with the comments you have posted reg open source. Yes, as you put it and I have tried to address – the key areas to factor in are skills (PHP and Moodle knowledge), ability to manage a programming team, clear understanding of the hosting and infrastructure costs, and a helpdesk.  As long as customers understand that all these are costs, I am sure that they can take a informed decision.
Regarding JSP (or rather we use Advanced Java), when we started developing UpsideLMS more than 6 years ago Java was a preferred enterprise development platform for designing and developing enterprise scale applications. PHP was getting popular and .NET was also getting its feet in the ground. We, however decided to go with Java as we had more confidence in the platform and also more skills and knowledge at that point of time. But yes, PHP has really come up well and is a strong contender today to both Java and .NET for developing big applications.

]]> By: Vijay http://www.upsidelearning.com/blog/index.php/2010/04/29/the-real-cost-of-a-free-open-source-lms/comment-page-1/#comment-68756 Vijay Fri, 29 Jul 2011 11:32:51 +0000 http://www.upsidelearning.com/blog/?p=4636#comment-68756 Hi Amit,   I found your article quite interesting and informative. My company is an existing client of yours (Marshall ACM).  I have personally used and deployed Moodle and am a specialist in Moodle implementation (and design- theme and php coder). I suppose the challenge from my side would be the cost in the server and infrastructure. This of course is avoided is a company already has this in place (most mid size to large) Organisations already have this in place.   All in all, to use free open source technology requires skills and expertise which normal IT Staff don't have (I would know this because my background is IT Support and then I dived into the world of Moodle and have become a specialist in this) All in all I agree that the cost involved in infrastructure and setting/upgrading it is a considering point.   Amit, I am quite interested in why Upside uses "JSP"  technology instead of "PHP" - which I feel is more popular in the market. I only knew this after looking at upside portal web address and the error messages (that suggest that it runs on Tomcat - which is free)...   Hi Amit,
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I found your article quite interesting and informative. My company is an existing client of yours (Marshall ACM).  I have personally used and deployed Moodle and am a specialist in Moodle implementation (and design- theme and php coder). I suppose the challenge from my side would be the cost in the server and infrastructure. This of course is avoided is a company already has this in place (most mid size to large) Organisations already have this in place.
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All in all, to use free open source technology requires skills and expertise which normal IT Staff don’t have (I would know this because my background is IT Support and then I dived into the world of Moodle and have become a specialist in this)
All in all I agree that the cost involved in infrastructure and setting/upgrading it is a considering point.
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Amit, I am quite interested in why Upside uses “JSP”  technology instead of “PHP” – which I feel is more popular in the market. I only knew this after looking at upside portal web address and the error messages (that suggest that it runs on Tomcat – which is free)…
 

]]> By: Amit Gautam http://www.upsidelearning.com/blog/index.php/2010/04/29/the-real-cost-of-a-free-open-source-lms/comment-page-1/#comment-60539 Amit Gautam Fri, 13 May 2011 04:35:11 +0000 http://www.upsidelearning.com/blog/?p=4636#comment-60539 Nick, you have made some great points and I think its important for customers to evaluate and understand their strengths in these areas - source code modifications, having a team that can connect to community support, IT staff, etc. to get the maximum benefits of an open source system. Nick, you have made some great points and I think its important for customers to evaluate and understand their strengths in these areas – source code modifications, having a team that can connect to community support, IT staff, etc. to get the maximum benefits of an open source system.

]]> By: Amit Gautam http://www.upsidelearning.com/blog/index.php/2010/04/29/the-real-cost-of-a-free-open-source-lms/comment-page-1/#comment-60538 Amit Gautam Fri, 13 May 2011 04:32:55 +0000 http://www.upsidelearning.com/blog/?p=4636#comment-60538 Paula, the precise reason that 'free' in open source has not much to do with the cost of ownership is what I have tried to address in my post. What we have seen with our interactions with companies looking for an LMS is that when it comes to open source LMS systems - customers overlook the real 'free' part of the open source system and 'assume' that there is no cost of ownership as well. I wanted to dispel this notion and iterate clearly the various (tangible and intangible) cost heads that come in play when acquiring or using an open source LMS. I'd like my customers to understand this clearly and make an informed decision and not get carried away by claims about open source software being free (even implying commercial costs to be zero). I find those claims almost like below the belt advertisements which fail to educate customers on the real benefits of the open source and harp on making it seem like completely 'free' for an organization. We have also seen customers review their decisions in a short time after realizing they are actually spending more money than they even knew they would have to. Cheers! Paula, the precise reason that ‘free’ in open source has not much to do with the cost of ownership is what I have tried to address in my post. What we have seen with our interactions with companies looking for an LMS is that when it comes to open source LMS systems – customers overlook the real ‘free’ part of the open source system and ‘assume’ that there is no cost of ownership as well.
I wanted to dispel this notion and iterate clearly the various (tangible and intangible) cost heads that come in play when acquiring or using an open source LMS. I’d like my customers to understand this clearly and make an informed decision and not get carried away by claims about open source software being free (even implying commercial costs to be zero). I find those claims almost like below the belt advertisements which fail to educate customers on the real benefits of the open source and harp on making it seem like completely ‘free’ for an organization. We have also seen customers review their decisions in a short time after realizing they are actually spending more money than they even knew they would have to.
Cheers!

]]> By: Nick http://www.upsidelearning.com/blog/index.php/2010/04/29/the-real-cost-of-a-free-open-source-lms/comment-page-1/#comment-60492 Nick Thu, 12 May 2011 09:30:59 +0000 http://www.upsidelearning.com/blog/?p=4636#comment-60492 Totally agree with George and Paula.  The great thing about open source is it is free (free both in terms of cost, and in terms of what you can do with it).  Plus, if it is an established project then the chances are you can modify and still update to the latest version (have a look at Wordpress). Also, at institutions that already have a VLE (even one of the really expensive ones that supposedly has dedicated support) there will still be a big team of IT guys, and associated infrastructure, supporting the system, hence, all those costs are already in place. Totally agree with George and Paula.  The great thing about open source is it is free (free both in terms of cost, and in terms of what you can do with it).  Plus, if it is an established project then the chances are you can modify and still update to the latest version (have a look at Wordpress).
Also, at institutions that already have a VLE (even one of the really expensive ones that supposedly has dedicated support) there will still be a big team of IT guys, and associated infrastructure, supporting the system, hence, all those costs are already in place.

]]> By: paula http://www.upsidelearning.com/blog/index.php/2010/04/29/the-real-cost-of-a-free-open-source-lms/comment-page-1/#comment-60432 paula Wed, 11 May 2011 12:15:09 +0000 http://www.upsidelearning.com/blog/?p=4636#comment-60432 First of all, you don't know what free in Free Software/Open Source Software means. Free in Free Software/Open Source Software means free as in "free speech and not as in free beer". The fact that you don't give money for the software, is a bonus, because the main advantage of Free Software/Open Source Software is that you have the freedom to share, to study and to modify it. With Free Software/Open Source Software you don't depend on a company. You can't say the Moodle's license is free because there is no license. You know why? Because when you get Moodle, the software is yours. And you can't have this in proprietary software: when you give money for proprietary software, you are not buying the software. You are buying a license to use the software for a period of time. The software is not yours, you can not change it to adapt it to yours needs, you can not add functionalities. In life, you have two options: you pay for someone to do something or, if you don't have money, you learn how to do it yourself. Free Software/Open Source Software gives you the both options, proprietary software doesn't. I'm not a computer science expert, I came from Humanities, but I can install and maintain Moodle on a server. And when I had some questions, I found a very good support from the community. First of all, you don’t know what free in Free Software/Open Source Software means. Free in Free Software/Open Source Software means free as in “free speech and not as in free beer”.
The fact that you don’t give money for the software, is a bonus, because the main advantage of Free Software/Open Source Software is that you have the freedom to share, to study and to modify it.
With Free Software/Open Source Software you don’t depend on a company.
You can’t say the Moodle’s license is free because there is no license. You know why? Because when you get Moodle, the software is yours.
And you can’t have this in proprietary software: when you give money for proprietary software, you are not buying the software. You are buying a license to use the software for a period of time. The software is not yours, you can not change it to adapt it to yours needs, you can not add functionalities.
In life, you have two options: you pay for someone to do something or, if you don’t have money, you learn how to do it yourself. Free Software/Open Source Software gives you the both options, proprietary software doesn’t.
I’m not a computer science expert, I came from Humanities, but I can install and maintain Moodle on a server. And when I had some questions, I found a very good support from the community.

]]> By: Michael http://www.upsidelearning.com/blog/index.php/2010/04/29/the-real-cost-of-a-free-open-source-lms/comment-page-1/#comment-57892 Michael Thu, 07 Apr 2011 18:41:47 +0000 http://www.upsidelearning.com/blog/?p=4636#comment-57892 If you get a free car, you have to pay for gas. If you get a free dog, you have to pay for dogfood. If you get a free house, you still have power, water, and property taxes. These things are still free, as is Moodle;-). If you get a free car, you have to pay for gas.
If you get a free dog, you have to pay for dogfood.
If you get a free house, you still have power, water, and property taxes.
These things are still free, as is Moodle;-).

]]> By: Amit Gautam http://www.upsidelearning.com/blog/index.php/2010/04/29/the-real-cost-of-a-free-open-source-lms/comment-page-1/#comment-52879 Amit Gautam Thu, 10 Feb 2011 16:18:06 +0000 http://www.upsidelearning.com/blog/?p=4636#comment-52879 @George Thanks for your comment. What you say is correct. However, my article was purely focused on helping organizations understand that 'an open source LMS is NOT free'. It was intended to clearly list out the costs involved in implementing an LMS even if its open source. It doesnt negate these costs being associated with any other LMS as well. However, during my interactions with a number of people, I did observe that a good number of people associate 'open source' with 'free' which is not the case. As you said only the license cost is not there rest all other costs are applicable. And this is precisely, I wanted to say in my article that only the licensing cost doesnt apply but there are other costs too. This would help understand the 'real cost of an open source LMS'. Thanks. @George
Thanks for your comment. What you say is correct.
However, my article was purely focused on helping organizations understand that ‘an open source LMS is NOT free’. It was intended to clearly list out the costs involved in implementing an LMS even if its open source. It doesnt negate these costs being associated with any other LMS as well.
However, during my interactions with a number of people, I did observe that a good number of people associate ‘open source’ with ‘free’ which is not the case. As you said only the license cost is not there rest all other costs are applicable.
And this is precisely, I wanted to say in my article that only the licensing cost doesnt apply but there are other costs too. This would help understand the ‘real cost of an open source LMS’.
Thanks.

]]> By: George http://www.upsidelearning.com/blog/index.php/2010/04/29/the-real-cost-of-a-free-open-source-lms/comment-page-1/#comment-52876 George Thu, 10 Feb 2011 15:39:58 +0000 http://www.upsidelearning.com/blog/?p=4636#comment-52876 ALL of the points raised here apply to **ANY** LMS selected, both Open Source or Commercial - support costs, infrastructure costs, training and customization.  It requires effort and money, which has to be spent regardless.  Because a vendor is commercial does not make him/her more willing to do customizations for you - there will still be a cost - and since the pool of available talent is much smaller (how many firms will have access to that code, if required, to customize the software for you) then of course, by the laws of demand and supply, your costs WILL be much higher. Training  costs, "commercial support" costs are both relevant and real costs regardless of software distribution model. The article should be called "The Real Cost of a LMS" and remove the references to Open Source beyond the mention of "cost of license", because everything else mentions is not specific to Open Source, and therefore is misleading, and seems to be deliberately painting a very dismal picture of OS LMS.  The only good thing mentioned about OS LMS is the free license as though that is the only positive trait.  The benefits of Open Source go far beyond price, and it is apparent that the author does not really understand this fact.  Flexibility, lack of vendor lock-in, customizability and product longevity (the code can never be taken away) are some of the attractions of OS software, which for many,  far outstrip price (free license) in importance.  Hence, the success of "Commercial  Open Source" which negates the free argument.   ALL of the points raised here apply to **ANY** LMS selected, both Open Source or Commercial – support costs, infrastructure costs, training and customization.  It requires effort and money, which has to be spent regardless.  Because a vendor is commercial does not make him/her more willing to do customizations for you – there will still be a cost – and since the pool of available talent is much smaller (how many firms will have access to that code, if required, to customize the software for you) then of course, by the laws of demand and supply, your costs WILL be much higher.
Training  costs, “commercial support” costs are both relevant and real costs regardless of software distribution model.
The article should be called “The Real Cost of a LMS” and remove the references to Open Source beyond the mention of “cost of license”, because everything else mentions is not specific to Open Source, and therefore is misleading, and seems to be deliberately painting a very dismal picture of OS LMS.  The only good thing mentioned about OS LMS is the free license as though that is the only positive trait.  The benefits of Open Source go far beyond price, and it is apparent that the author does not really understand this fact.  Flexibility, lack of vendor lock-in, customizability and product longevity (the code can never be taken away) are some of the attractions of OS software, which for many,  far outstrip price (free license) in importance.  Hence, the success of “Commercial  Open Source” which negates the free argument.
 

]]> By: LMS Resources « aLearning Blog http://www.upsidelearning.com/blog/index.php/2010/04/29/the-real-cost-of-a-free-open-source-lms/comment-page-1/#comment-22352 LMS Resources « aLearning Blog Sat, 08 May 2010 17:03:29 +0000 http://www.upsidelearning.com/blog/?p=4636#comment-22352 [...] in mind that UpsideLearning wants to sell you their own LMS, Amit Gautam’s post on “The Real Cost of a Free (Open Source) LMS!” raises some important concerns that you need to weigh before you jump headlong into Moodle or other [...] [...] in mind that UpsideLearning wants to sell you their own LMS, Amit Gautam’s post on “The Real Cost of a Free (Open Source) LMS!” raises some important concerns that you need to weigh before you jump headlong into Moodle or other [...]

]]> By: O custo real do Moodle - Blog2Learn http://www.upsidelearning.com/blog/index.php/2010/04/29/the-real-cost-of-a-free-open-source-lms/comment-page-1/#comment-22218 O custo real do Moodle - Blog2Learn Thu, 06 May 2010 21:27:01 +0000 http://www.upsidelearning.com/blog/?p=4636#comment-22218 [...] Post inspirado no artigo “The real cost of a Free (Open Source) LMS!“ [...] [...] Post inspirado no artigo “The real cost of a Free (Open Source) LMS!“ [...]

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